Well, Jim Quarterly’s pro-Ben campaign is hard to run against based on his winning ways. As anti-Steelers as being a Cleveland fan has made me, I am man enough to say that Roethlisberger’s playmaking ability and clutch are top-tier. Yet, I still don’t see him as anything out of the ordinary.
The degree of difficulty during Roethlisberger’s super bowl runs can only be altered by Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon. The Super Bowl XL run is still being dissected by conspiracy theorists and Super Bowl XLIII matched the Steelers up against an 8-8 team, a rookie quarterback, and the league’s 31st ranked defense in the final game. Not to mention that in two championship games Ben has thrown more interceptions than Tom Brady has in four. Oh, and he has the same amount of touchdown passes as Antwaan Randle El.
I’m not trying to take away the fact that Roethlisberger has two Super Bowl titles. What I am trying to say is that a lot of quarterbacks would win in Pittsburgh with that defense and with (dare I say it) the constant breaks that they catch.
I don’t want to spend too much time crying the blues about the Steelers’ good fortune, but I will give you two examples. One past and one present.
1. In 1969, both the Steelers and Chicago Bears finished the season with a 1-13 record. Due to identical league-worst records, the NFL decided to award the first pick of the draft to the winner of a coin flip. What do you know? The Steelers won. They took Terry Bradshaw and four super bowls during that decade. Sorry Chicago.
2. In 2010, the Steelers finished 12-4 and “earned” a first-round bye and – what has turned into – home field advantage throughout the playoffs. The Ravens were forced to play at Heinz Field during the divisional round and the New York Jets will head to Pittsburgh this Sunday. The Ravens and Steelers finished with identical records and the New York Jets were one game back at 11-5.
Two games that could (should) have gone against the Steelers were a 23-22 win in Miami and a 19-16 overtime win in Buffalo. I won’t go into too much detail; if you watch football, you know the stories. Bottom line, a blatantly blown call on a fumble in the end zone resulted in a winning field goal, while Stevie Johnson’s drop in overtime not only cost the Bills the game but led to one of the most embarrassing tweets ever.
If the Steelers don’t catch those two colossal breaks, they end the year 10-6 and enter the dance as the sixth-seed. In translation: No games played at Heinz and they match up with Peyton Manning and the Colts in Indy for round one. And if they survive that game, they play Brady and company at Gillette. FYI: Ben has never beaten Brady in the playoffs or in Foxboro – or even come close.
But fate had other plans. Just like Bradshaw’s coin toss. Thanks to Gene Steratore and Stevie Johnson, Ben can lean on his defense to bully Schmo Flacco and Mark Sanchez en route to Dallas.
That was about 300 more words than I had hoped. Anyhoo…
For word count’s sake and to save you boredom and cataracts, I will round out my “Ben’s not irreplaceable/the best/only QB that can win” argument by simply comparing him to Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers has only two career playoff wins, YET what he has done in three career playoff games and his body of work with the Packers this season is a testimony to his spot at the top (I believe even above Brees):
1. Aaron Rodgers is one game away from the Super Bowl without having his starting running back and tight end (who happens to be one of the best in the game) all season, not to mention a sub-par offensive line. A running game and a defense are a quarterback’s two best friends, and a tight end is a signal-caller’s safety blanket. Rodgers is doing it without two of the three necessities. Not to mention that the Packers were 0-2 without Rodgers this season including a game where they failed to score a touchdown against the Detroit Lions (please read the last sentence again). The Steelers finished 3-1 without Roethlisberger including a game where they scored 38 points against Tampa Bay’s 9th ranked defense.
2. In three playoff games, ARod has thrown for 939 yards and 10 touchdowns. He has thrown one interception in those three games, which came on a play where he was hit while throwing and the ball came out of his hand and bounced of his leg. Rodgers’ should have a playoff TD-INT ration of 10:0 had it not been for that corner blitz. In 11 playoff games, Mr. Roethlisberger has only thrown for 300 yards once (a loss) and has a TD-INT ration of 4.25:3. But Ben wins – while throwing for 200 yards and a TD (generalization).
My final point zeros not only in on Rodgers v. Roethlisberger but on current quarterbacks as a whole. And where is the consistency? I will bullet ten other quarterbacks and briefly state why they could be considered “elite” based on accomplishments.
1. Philip Rivers – Has never won a Super Bowl despite constantly putting up points (a quarterback’s job). One example could be Rivers throwing for 310 yards and three scores against the Steelers in the Super Bowl XLIII playoffs. In that game, Roethlisberger threw for only 181 yards and one score. Ben’s team still won. Now I see Jim Quarterly’s argument (sarcasm).
2. Jay Cutler – Has hands down the NFL’s worst offensive line AND receiving core. But Cutler still managed to lead the Bears to the conference championship and potentially the Super Bowl. His defense has a little bit to do with that. Sound familiar, Ben?
3. Aaron Rodgers – (see above)
4. Drew Brees – Set NFL records en route to his first Super Bowl. Came back from one of the NFL’s most gruesome shoulder injuries to win a title and save a city.
5. Peyton Manning – (see: NFL record books) (oh, and see: Super Bowl XLI) (and see: no defense) (and lastly see: made playoffs 11 of last 12 seasons)
6. Matt Ryan – Obviously doesn’t have too much to show in terms of playoff success, but he has the best win percentage for any QB through three years. Isn’t winning what makes you a good QB?
7. Eli Manning – Has a Super Bowl win over a previously undefeated team. If that’s not a resume builder, what is? Beating a Cardinals team that had a regular season point differential of 1 (427 points for, 426 against)?
8. Matt Hasslebeck – Look at the guys career playoff numbers throwing to D.J. Hackett and Bobby Engram when he qualified for AARP. And had it not been for an admittedly blown call in the Super Bowl that resulted in at least a 10 point swing, he could have a ring. How did Ben do that game?
9. Tom Brady – Three titles. Discussed in “Greatest Ever” debates. Beat a team nicknamed “The Greatest Show of Turf” while surrounded by skill guys such as Troy Brown, Antowain Smith, and Bert Emanuel.
10. Mark Sanchez – Two season as a professional; two AFC championship games. Sanchez is similar to Ben that they both suffer with Right-Place-Right-Time Syndrome. Sanchez has overthrown more targets than he has hit, but in crunch time he has hit them. I love Sanchez, but if I had to take a quarterback to go a whole season with, there may be ten or so that I take over him. But winning is what the people want. Ask Marino.
Okay, this time I mean it. I’m concluding this thing. I’ll conclude with how Pittsburgh enthusiasts (John Clayton, Merril Hoge, and Bill Cowher included) stack up Ben’s big plays with any other big play. Ben admitted after the Ravens game that his 3rd and 19 bomb to Antonio Brown was nothing more than a blindfolded prayer. To the Steeler faithful – he knew right where to put that ball.
If you ask Steeler fans, his touchdown to Santonio Holmes in the Super Bowl was the greatest play in history of the big game. This week, I watched Mark Sanchez complete almost an identical pass…to Santonio Holmes. Only this time, it wasn’t to put the Jets in the lead nor was it for the Lombardi Trophy. It was just another play for any professional.
Actually, it’s kind of funny to think about Roethlisberger’s throw to Santonio. Albeit, it was a phenomenal pitch and catch, apparently it wasn’t the best ever. Don’t take it from me, take it from Sports Illustrated. They ran a bracket that seeded the top eight moments in Super Bowl history. Ben’s touchdown pass was ranked number… unranked.
I called Blundo to let him know what the non-bias media thought and he was appalled. Typical Steelers fan. Don’t worry, Jim. Judging by lady luck taking care of Manning, Brady, and Brees, Ben may have another chance at the bracket this year in Dallas.
I’d just love to see Aaron Rodgers have the opportunity to say otherwise.
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As soon as you bring in "luck" to any argument you are taking away what the game is. You could find an argument for every team that won to have "luck."
ReplyDeleteAlso, if you're going to cite "experts" on their opinions on Ben's plays, you should also cite their opinions on QB rankings, because none of them have Jay Cutler, or Matt Hasslebeck in the top 5, certainly not ahead of Tom Brady.
Aaron Rodgers is Brady without wheels and is more like Steve Young than any other qb (minus the lefty-throw). But you can't compare their numbers because the systems are different. It comes down to wins in the system you're drafted in. Ben plays with a team that doesn't need a lot of points but you could argue Favre leads all statistics because that's Green Bay's system and he worked well-ish in it. Ben could play as long as favre and wouldn't have the same numbers.
Lastly, saying the throw to Brown on Saturday was a "blindfolded prayer" does not discredit the quarterback who threw it. You can't take away the preparation based on him hoping it would be a catch. It was the right read and put in a spot only where his guy could catch it. Agreeing that him saying it was luck might as well be saying you think he doesn't watch film and practice and make those throws in his sleep.
Bottom line is big stage and winning. One thing you didn't include from the XLIII super bowl season is his 7 comebacks in the fourth quarter, including the big game. Aaron is the perfect style QB because he's Brady with wheels. But it has to be Brady's to hold at this point because of two things: Wins & rings.
Ben is a guy you want to have the ball with 2 minutes left to win the game, because he will. That seem's more important to any ranking system than TD/INT stats.
Aaron Rodgers is Brady with wheels**
ReplyDeleteMy argument(s) are often rebutted by such notions. "Ben wins." "Ben leads comebacks." etc. He does. Perhaps, he is the best at it. BUT - at the same time, Ben Roethlisberger has been in the situation to lead a comeback more than anyone else.
ReplyDeleteThe Steelers defense made Ben who he is to a certain extent. They have been top 3 in scoring defense EVERY YEAR BUT TWO since #7 has been in the league. Ironically, both of the years that they finished out of the top 3, the Steelers failed to make the playoffs. I'm not saying that that is Ben's fault. But I am saying that if Peyton Manning were to have a defense of that caliber or even Philip Rivers (#1 defense in yards against this season, not points allowed - points dictates the game's outcome), perhaps they are the QBs with multiple come from behind wins.
I recall in the regular season en route to XL that the Steelers won 3 or 4 games without an offensive touchdown (I especially remember the Chargers game) but they were able to prevail on a last second/late field goal. Credit that to Ben's account. The man wins. But it's a lot easier to score 17 points than 52 (another ARod reference).
Hey, I'm a friend of Sopko's and he passed this along thinking I may be interested to read or comment on your guys' stuff so I hope you don't mind me doing so.
ReplyDeleteTo begin with, I will say I was born and raised in Pittsburgh and a diehard Steelers fan so clearly I have some bias in the subject of Ben and his ranking among QB's in the game today. I will agree with the assessment of Superbowl XL where the Steelers were lucky to get out of there with a ring, especially because of his play, but I dont believe you can really hold that against him. If you were, you could discredit the majority of the so called elite quarterbacks in the league today based on past playoff performances.
As for how to rank Quarterbacks, I really think
you need to separate them based on tiers or characteristics they possess. In my opinion there are two different types of elite quarterbacks currently in the league. The first are the masterminds of the game who are essentially the offensive coordinator of their own team and every half knowledgeable sports fan would know who they are. In this tier I would put Brady, Manning, Brees as the upper proven echelon, Rivers and Rodgers as on the cusp of this elite status and eventually Sam Bradford I believe will fall into this category especially with McDaniels running his offense now.
For the other elite tier I would classify them as Leaders whose intangibles are off the charts. These guys dont necessarily put up the numbers of the people in the first tier perhaps based on offense, supporting cast, talent, etc. however are still proven solid quarterbacks who 75% of fans would love to have starting for them on their favorite teams. The leader of this category to me is Roethlisberger. He has 2 Superbowls,a great record, and intangibles which lead many people to choose him as their choice for a 2 minute drive needing a score type guy. The big thing I've gotten out of him especially this year is that he is not throwing the gut punching interception that he was accustomed to. I realize he still is capable of a stupid fumble when trying to allude 3 defensive linemen which may hurt us soon, but his decision making when actually throwing the ball has been impeccable. Other guys in this category to me include Matt Ryan, Eli Manning on his good days, with Joe Flacco, Josh Freeman, and Mark Sanchez showing signs of the similar trait.
Other possible quarterbacks such as Cutler, Romo, Palmer, Schaub, even McNabb before he seemed like he aged 15 years in the last 2 seasons all having a glaring weakness where they cant be put in either of those 2 categories. Are they pretty good quarterbacks? Yeah most definitely. Do I think they could win a Super Bowl as the focal point? Probably not honestly and that's what separates them.
So overall, I feel that you cant properly compare a quarterback such as Roethlisberger to the studs of the game. They both win but do it in completely different fashion. It's like comparing the Phoenix Suns offense to Wisconsin Mens Basketball offense. They do different things well, but ultimately they are both successful(at least when Amare was still there for the Suns)
Sorry for the long response, but hope you guys have comments or disagreements with what I'm saying. I've liked what you guys have done so far and hope there is more to come.
Thanks for the comment. I can see exactly where you are coming from and I don't often agree with people.
ReplyDeleteIs it possible for a quarterback to fall in both "tiers?" I think Rodgers and Cutler (if his o-line was better than Mount Union's) could be hybrids of both breeds. Perhaps Josh Freeman in due time? Even Ben - who finally this year looked like an NFL quarterback and not a fourth quarter backyard player - is eligible for both titles.
I do disagree with the little respect for Donovan McNabb. THe guy went to three conference championships with Todd Pinkston as his number one target. When he finally did get a receiver (T.O.) he made the Super Bowl where he ran into Tom Brady. This season McNabb was throwing to Anthony Armstrong and Brandon Banks. The guy has rarely had help. That's why I'm crossing my fingers that McNabb lands in Arizona with Larry Fitz next season. Renaissance?
I definitely think you could be in both tiers in some regard. You make the perfect example of Rodgers. Prior to this year he probably would have been placed in the 2nd tier. However, this year with carrying the team on his back he has definitely raised his level to the stud status. Now, no matter who else is out for the Packers, teams will fear them as long as number 12 is under center for them. Roethlisberger has the chance to be the same type of player if he can lead the Steelers to the Super Bowl and win or at least perform at a high level.
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree with your take on Cutler. I love his skills. He has a big arm and the balls to try to make any throw on the field, however that is a symptom of Brett Favre syndrome. The other problem is before this year he has never won in his previous stops. You could argue he hasnt had the best supporting cast but I doubt he had that less significant talent at Vanderbilt then Philip Rivers did at NC State. If he has another winning season next year or wins the Super Bowl this year, he definitely would deserve to make the tiers then.
McNabb is a tricky one. I agree that in his early years in Philly the receiving corp of Freddie "The Peoples Champ" Mitchell ,Todd Stinkson, and James Trash didnt strike fear in any secondary. However at this point in his career I feel McNabb would be best served going to a run oriented offense, who has a possession type receiver or good tight end. I actually think he would fit in Tennessee especially since the other teams in the division defenses suck. Arizona would be interesting thought because Larry Fitz can make almost anyone look good as long as your name isnt Derek Anderson.